The Ride (now featuring Gun Candy!!)

WIPs, finished stuff, it's all good. Anything posted is open for crits unless otherwise stated.

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The Ride (now featuring Gun Candy!!)

Postby Nathan » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:39 pm

Hey. I decided to color some Stelfreeze pages, which was pretty intimidating, considering what an amazing colorist he is. I flatted 5 pages and rendered the first two and then realized I wasn't happy with the palette or the rendering. The palette sucked because it was too monochromatic and felt forced, and the rendering sucked because I had been torn between trying to ape Stelfreeze's style and just coloring in my own style. In the end, I decided to just forget trying to be anywhere near as cool as Brian and just do my own thing. I'm pretty happy with the results. I'll post more as I finish them.

Here's the first attempt:
Image

And here's the redo:
Image

Did I make the right call? Hit me with your best shot.
Last edited by Nathan on Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PRambo » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:06 pm

I liked the warmth in the first one, it gave it a more action mood. Except in the 5th panel I would have warmed the car up and cooled the girl.

Just my opinion. I like the style!
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Postby SNAKEBITE » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:05 am

I agree.
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Postby Nathan » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:17 am

Ha, well, there ya go. I guess my palette wasn't so bad, after all. I still prefer the rendering in the redo, though, so how about a happy medium?

Image
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Postby aquanaut » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:04 am

I prefer your first rendering, no need to change much. I think his style works best with grads and flats, his work is very manga inspired even though you may not notice it, so try looking at that.

Definitely don't try to add shapes with your colors when the artist didn't render them in ink, this way you're drawing and changing the original art, it's a pet peeve of mine, I hate when colorists add abdominal pecks and other muscles for examples, when the artist didn't draw them...

I'm referring to the girl's face in panel 3.
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Postby Nathan » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:15 am

aquanaut wrote:Definitely don't try to add shapes with your colors when the artist didn't render them in ink, this way you're drawing and changing the original art, it's a pet peeve of mine, I hate when colorists add abdominal pecks and other muscles for examples, when the artist didn't draw them...

I'm referring to the girl's face in panel 3.


Thanks for the crit, man, but I've got to disagree with you on this last point: I mean, what the heck would colorists be if they didn't "add shapes", as you refer to it? They'd be flatters. All I've done is rendered the face in panel 3 according to the light source I'd established, trying to give the face more dimension and drama. Now, maybe I got the light source wrong, or maybe I've over-rendered the face (something I'm prone to doing with female faces), but I can't accept that there's anything wrong in principle with what I've done.

There's nothing wrong with a colorist defining and filling out shapes that are already there, such as the lady's cheekbone (unless you're implying that Stelfreeze's women lack bones in the faces). How the colorist does this and to what extent is certainly debatable, though. Different brush strokes for different folks.

My 2 bits. :wink: What say you, friend?
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Postby aquanaut » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:24 pm

You see, sometimes is not so much what you add but what you leave, for someone like Brian Hitch which has a very realistic and detailed style than Stelfreeze which is much more stylised you can go overboard with your coloring, but Brian Stelfreeze didn't drew them nor indicated the volume of the cheekbones just an example, in my opinion you shouldn't guess it just color according to the art, but this is just my opinion of course not a rule of any kind.

Your first attempt is the best one but I don't think that the shadow you added on the 5th panel is correct.

There's nothing wrong with a colorist defining and filling out shapes that are already there, such as the lady's cheekbone (unless you're implying that Stelfreeze's women lack bones in the faces).


Very wrong attitude just because the artist didn't define it doesn't mean he want's you to, you're just guessing the volume of it, like I said Stelfreeze prefers flats not over-renders.

http://www.gaijinstudios.com/photoViewer.php?id=638
http://www.gaijinstudios.com/photoViewer.php?id=613

Less is more.
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Postby Chris Summers » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:17 pm

I gotta disagree with ya here Aquanaut.

One of the things that Colorist do should be to bring something to the art through colors, and the defining of shapes. If this were real work then Brian probably would have given some instructions as to what he wanted.

However I think that there is nothing wrong or out of place with the shapes or rendering style that Nathan used. while I would't do a full on digi-paint job on this peice of Stelfreeze's work the more rendered cell-like style like Nathan has going looks great.

Also in your example with the 2 girls the redhead has some shapes that are defined with colors and not lines (look at her left hip/abdomin area)

Oh and good job Nathan the redone re-do looks great.
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Postby Nathan » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:48 pm

Brian Stelfreeze is a very flexible colorist. Sometimes he renders heavily (usually on cover work) and sometimes he's an ultra-minimalist (usually on interiors, where he's focused on story-telling -- and not getting paid as much). He does both as well as anyone in the business, to my mind.
Anyway, it doesn't matter how Stelfreeze colors. The point is that I wasn't trying to color like anyone but myself. I'm not a minimalist, nor am I coloring these pages for anything but practise. If I was doing it for Brian, it would be a different story. (Lee Loughridge did some fill-in colors for Stelfreeze on Matador and he did a great job of it. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't checked the credits.) I know my style of rendering probably wouldn't be to Mr. Stelfreeze's liking, but I think it suits just fine. Anyway.

Thanks, Chris!
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Postby boysoltero » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:01 pm

I agree with Nathan and InkBlotzArt here.

A colorist's job is to somehow give life to the page. Give depth, volume, atmosphere, mood, etc.

So I think it's just natural that Nathan colors this taking in mind the contours of the woman's face in panel 3.

Another grat example would be Adam Hughes. He adds dimensions to his artworks through colors. Looking at his artworks, it's noticeable that Adam Hughes draws minimal lines, but then he adds everything (i.e. muscle tones, folds and creases) through the coloring.

And the results are simply astounding.
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Postby Reber » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:17 pm

boysoltero wrote:I agree with Nathan and InkBlotzArt here.

A colorist's job is to somehow give life to the page. Give depth, volume, atmosphere, mood, etc.

So I think it's just natural that Nathan colors this taking in mind the contours of the woman's face in panel 3.

Another grat example would be Adam Hughes. He adds dimensions to his artworks through colors. Looking at his artworks, it's noticeable that Adam Hughes draws minimal lines, but then he adds everything (i.e. muscle tones, folds and creases) through the coloring.

And the results are simply astounding.


That's a pretty bad example actually. Adam knows how the image is going to go from start to finish. He knows what he wants to leave out so that he can render in his colors. A good example would be Morry Hollowell's work over Steve McNiven. That's two seperate artist contributing to the final product.
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Postby Nathan » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:39 pm

Reber wrote:A good example would be Morry Hollowell's work over Steve McNiven. That's two seperate artist contributing to the final product.


I mentioned Mo in my first response to Aquanaut, but then edited it out for some reason. But yeah, he's a great colorist who brings a lot to McNiven's lines. I'm not saying I've done the same for Stelfreeze's work, but that was my intent.

Anyway, here's another page.

Image
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Postby boysoltero » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:45 pm

To Reber:

Hmm... well my mistake for not having known that. And yes, Hollowel IS certainly a great example of what we're talking about. *drools at the Civil War pages*


Eitherway, the point was that color can give life to the lineart. :)
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Postby Nathan » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:15 am

Really happy with this page. Man, Brian Stelfreeze is great. Crits?

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Postby Steve Firchow » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:42 am

aquanaut wrote:You see, sometimes is not so much what you add but what you leave, for someone like Brian Hitch which has a very realistic and detailed style than Stelfreeze which is much more stylised you can go overboard with your coloring, but Brian Stelfreeze didn't drew them nor indicated the volume of the cheekbones just an example, in my opinion you shouldn't guess it just color according to the art, but this is just my opinion of course not a rule of any kind.

Your first attempt is the best one but I don't think that the shadow you added on the 5th panel is correct.

There's nothing wrong with a colorist defining and filling out shapes that are already there, such as the lady's cheekbone (unless you're implying that Stelfreeze's women lack bones in the faces).


Very wrong attitude just because the artist didn't define it doesn't mean he want's you to, you're just guessing the volume of it, like I said Stelfreeze prefers flats not over-renders.

http://www.gaijinstudios.com/photoViewer.php?id=638
http://www.gaijinstudios.com/photoViewer.php?id=613

Less is more.


Big talk. What are your qualifications? I've only seen two examples of your art and neither one demonstrates much in the way of significant experience.


Which leads me to an observation. GZ used to have a requirement that all members use their real names somewhere on their avatar. It was nice to be able to do a little background check when a new member started throwing around big critiques.


btw Nathan...your stuff really has moved to a whole new level.

Congrats!
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