Needs your critiques to learn more

WIPs, finished stuff, it's all good. Anything posted is open for crits unless otherwise stated.

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Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby KmerFelix » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:11 am

Hello I m a young artist and I ve been drawin since I m a kid and I fell in love with coloring this year. Since then I'm looking for more ways to improve my works. I m actually workin on my first professional project. These are some of my artworks:


Waiting for your critiques :)
Attachments
kk.jpg
3OO with my style
kk.jpg (373.61 KiB) Viewed 3177 times
hh.jpg
From my project 1
hh.jpg (189.14 KiB) Viewed 3177 times
300.jpg
From my project 2
300.jpg (133.64 KiB) Viewed 3177 times
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby KmerFelix » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:19 am

A Marvel Lineart I colored
uuj.jpg
Marvel Lineart
uuj.jpg (124.74 KiB) Viewed 3176 times
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby KmerFelix » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:18 am

More from me
Test-coloriage3.jpg
Test-coloriage3.jpg (253.3 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Lineart: Finch
Colors: Felix Fokoua
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby Winterbourne » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:20 pm

Hi there!

Some diverse styles here, that's good.

Just a quick question -- do you have any arts education, including just reading books on the topic? I ask because I recently found myself bewildering someone with jargon, even though they actually had done some design stuff. I'd rather not freak you out or make assumptions at this juncture. :)
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby KmerFelix » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:57 am

Unfortunately no I have done no art school but I ve read books on coloring techniques like " The DC Comic Guide to Coloring and Lettering Comics" I just like drawing and want to become a pro
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby Winterbourne » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:10 pm

Books and tutorials count as education. ;) You don't need a school to learn. I learned a lot more out of school than in it. Cheaper, too!

I'm composing a more detailed response to the post, but I've got a lingering migraine so it's delayed. And garbled.

These are some really challenging pieces to attempt, first off.

You've got skintones in various colours, which is a layer of difficulty. And then you've got underwater lighting, which has caustics and alters skintone a lot because water absorbs wavelengths of light at different depths.

About skintones -- ye gods, they're difficult, and dark tones especially. Partly because maybe one person I've found ever actually talks about them. Books assume people are all Caucasian. Maybe you're lucky enough to get a pale East Asian person, or a Latino person. Maybe. This infuriates me, because I like my characters to look like real people.

Navate has a pretty good breakdown of skin. I think it's a stalled tutorial series and it's more painterly, but here's the one that talks about skin colours:

It starts here with SKIN: a tutorial - Part 1

In technical terms, human skin scatters light under the surface. Subsurface scatter is the technical term. Jade, marble. milk, and tomatoes also scatter light this way. Pale skin has a milky, diffuse indication of form. Pale skin scatters light a lot and shadows never get very dark.

Dark skin is tricky, though -- variation occurs in the midtones most of all. It might seem odd that it's the midtones and not the shadows, but dark skin is highly reflective. This causes the planes of a person's face or figure to show bounce light from the environment. In the supplement to Navate's tutorial, the darkest skintones have purple shadows -- shadows tend to fill with ambient light, and purple tones often show up because the sky acts like a giant fill light and it causes the colour change. The shadows will actually vary a lot and depend hugely on the environment.

The model Alek Wek is a good example to look at: she has a naturally very dark skintone, but she's also photographed a lot so you can see how much her skin varies by lighting conditions.

This is really hard to represent with digital colouring. Dark skin often looks muddy and unclear when the reflectivity is not taken into account, and grey and dull when K tones are present. If you use the colour picker in Photoshop, look at the CMYK values. K stands for key, and it means black ink. Black in skintones kills the natural luminosity of skin. You're actually dealing with orange, red, and yellow-orange in dark values. You want K to be zero. You pretty much want K to be zero in almost all circumstances.

James Gurney talks about water and colour on his blog and in his book Color and Light, which I own and recommend. It is awesome.

Have you read through Itchy's light tutorial? It's really good. He also released a book, which I have and is really good.

The basis of human sight is in tone, but it's mixed with colour. Tone is used to guide attention as well as indicate form, and naturalistic lighting is a really useful thing to study, even if you go on to do many stylized or cartoony style.

Off the top of my head, I would suggest looking through Glen Vilppu's drawing manuals. I'm really liking the ones I bought -- I bought with the bundled download so I could have ebooks and real books. I got his head drawing manual (awesome), his animal manual, and his composition manual. I also may have downloaded a copy of his drawing manual, but it was a crappy copy. The content was still good, though. His drawing manual is solid, and a good start. he has one on lighting -- I have not read it. I have read Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Light and Shade, which is good. I imagine Vilppu's book is good given the quality of the books I have so far.

I recommend Vilppu because he has been teaching for 60-odd years, and worked for Disney. He's good at lifelike, dynamic, natural drawing. Also, his methods are simple, clear, and adaptable. That's the trick: by learning naturalism, your stylized work becomes more informed and more conscious -- style is abut what you choose to include and leave out. The better you know the subject, the better choices you can make. Form and light is the biggest concern, in my view, for working in colour.

Later on, when I can get my migraine under control, I can do overpaints to show you what I mean, if you'd like.

If I'm not making sense, let me know. I'm kinda screwed up from the headache.
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby KmerFelix » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:43 am

Thanks for those advices I'll search for those books it's true most books I read talks abt caucasian skins and I really thrive to get black skin some value without overdarkening it while playing with environment tone and it s very difficult.Hope you'll get over your migraine really wish to see some examples from u meanwhile I'll search for Villpu's work :) Thanks for the advices
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Re: Needs your critiques to learn more

Postby Winterbourne » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:51 pm

KmerFelix wrote:it's true most books I read talks abt caucasian skins and I really thrive to get black skin some value without overdarkening it while playing with environment tone and it s very difficult.


It's true, and it's frustrated me intensely. Books don't even talk about deep tans. They're teaching me about white people, but not if they like to play a lot of tennis in the summer. What is even the hell there.

If learning to draw is learning to see, then teaching people to see the Western European as the "standard" functionally blinds people to the reality of human variation. I am very against this!

Plus, my father's side is Polish, so I probably have Persian genes, because he tans a pretty deep olive and worked outside... pretty much his entire life. I've actually never seen him pale. My French/North African mom also used to tan quite olive as a kid, and so did I. I live in the Pacific Northwest, so pallor just kinda happens to everyone because the sunlight is so weak. So I'm about as porcelain as they come.

And I've always grown up in a pretty multhiethnic environment, though. At Christmas, my mother makes tagine and turkey. Usually there's salmon or tuna when we celebrate with the Polish relatives who grew up Catholic, but it's cooked fusion-style. There's usually chimichurri (Argentina) for the fish. German linzer torte, modified French buche de noel. That's normal to me.

I also used to work at a local ESL program, which was part of the larger immigrant and refugee society. My coworkers and my students were 1.) totally fascinating when you got to know them, and 2.) way multiethnic, being Chilean (founder), Cambodian (another founder), English (the teacher), Italian, Indian, Russian, Serbian, several flavours of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Dominican, Mexican (big variety there), Cuban, Moroccan, Persian, and a few Quebecers who usually have some aboriginal ancestry... So pretty much from all the continents. Except we didn't have any Oceanic people.

(Birthdays were awesome, people would bring a little something for a potluck, so one woman from Mexico, who used to be a worth champion athlete, made the best guacamole I have ever experienced. She wanted to start a restaurant and I was wholly supportive of this.)

And yet all my books talked about the whitest white people. The kind of people I'd describe as having faces so sharp you could slice a roast on them. Usually men, with bullshit advice about women. And, as a historian with an emphasis on history in art, as I went on I started to spot all these subtle traces of racial and sexual ideology. Modern drawing books are seriously stuck in in the 1700s. I'm not joking: the rules have not changed since Napoleon.

And I have seriously asked around, people who deal with skulls like dentists, orthodontists, physiotherapists, nurses -- even when I had an EEG the other day, the guy was measuring my skull to glue on the electrodes properly, and I asked if there was much variation between adults and he said it was minimal, a centimetre here and there, but more based on the individual.

And thus, my obsessions with understand the subject began, because I could not just sit down and get guidance to draw the people around me.

It's a perfect example of systemic racism. I have encountered maybe 4 sources that talk about ethnicity and skin colours without a thick coating of nonsense. No one even thinks to discuss different ethnic groups, or worse, they fall back on stereotype.

The better sources include:

Burne Hogarth's Drawing the Human Head -- Hogarth draws exaggerated, chiselled faces, with a strong sort of Cubist influence, but this book actually talks about facial slope and shows his drawings of people from different backgrounds. They're exaggerated, but so are his white faces.

One criticism: He discusses ageing characters, but modern people tend to look about ten to 15 years younger than his examples. It was first published in 1965, so anyone over 30 had lived through the Depression.

Chris Saper's Painting Beautiful Skin Tones with Color and Light -- The writer is a portrait artist by trade and this book is concern with physical media, but it not only discusses different ethnic groups, but the base hues of the skintone, light influence, colour temperature, and walkthroughs!

I nitpick her definitions a bit. Asians include Pacific Islanders, but Khmers (Camobdians) can be quite dark and she mostly talks about large single ethnic groups: Han-origin China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, etc. She defines Black as black/African American, the latter of which is highly mixed with French, Irish, and Scottish, and that doesn't do a lot of favours painting someone from a place like south Sudan. The definition of Hispanic is based on Cubans, Mexicans, and Puerto Ricans, which is actually a pretty broad mix of influences including African, Irish, Indian, and indigenous. Central Asians, North American First Nations, and North Africans are not really discussed, but as they are very diverse I can sort of see why. But I refuse to forgive. However, elsewhere in the book she also talks about about the analyze the skin tone of a reference figure, so as long as you have reference images the book can still serve. Facial structure is not something that is discussed.

Joumana Medlej's Human Types series. This is the good stuff. She discusses Caucasian and includes the Med, North Africa, Rom, and India. North American First nations are under Asian. Polynesians, Australian Aborigines, and North African (Egyptian, Sudan, Ethiopia) groups are under African. She also discusses hair types, eye colours, even average heights. She did some research. She also has a series on horses, on cats, and on birds. Her tutorials page on DA is here, but she also sells her human tutorials bound up as a book, which I have and is good.

Vilppu focuses more on teaching you to see patterns for yourself and make decisions for yourself, but a little guidance helps. Another useful book for me was Facial Geometry: Graphic Facial Analysis for Graphic Artists. The author notes that his averages and measurement are extrapolated from Caucasians and are thus not reliable for everyone, but I found just naming the different parts of the face and different planes to be useful, because I could look for them in reference models who were not Caucasian and look for patterns on my own. He does not discuss skintone.

I already linked Navate's tutorials...

Oh, if you could link me the original inks you used for your posted work, I could show you some tips more easily. I'm afraid of obliterating your lines in the process. :?
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Monday12
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