Layer setup in CMYK

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Postby Sweeney » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:45 pm

Cantina-Dan wrote:So do you go back and do all of the trapping once you've finished coloring a job?

Is this how you do your trap?:
1) Load the selection of your line layer
2) Create a new layer
3) Contract your selection a couple pixels

You've got it right up to here

Cantina-Dan wrote:4) Fill with a predetermined trap color

The trapping color is 60C 40M 40Y 0K.
Cantina-Dan wrote:5) Set layer to multiply or darken

The Trapping layer is always set to 'Normal' Mode - it knocks out color on the layers underneath the trapping layer.
The lineart layer is 100%K - this layer is set to Darken or Multiply, as it Overprints all layers underneath.

Above your Lineart layer you have FX, Glows, Color holds etc, that all KO layers underneath.

From Top to bottom, your layers will look similar to:

Color Holds
FX, Glows etc (can be several layers)
Lineart (set to Darken or Multiply)
Trapping (set to Normal)
Colors (can be one, or many, many layers)

Now this is if you are coloring in CMYK at the same size/resolution as the finished file. If you're working in RGB - trapping and lineart layer info is moot, as these colors will shift when you convert to CMYK.

I'm working on a rather lengthy tutorial on setting up files for coloring, including information about all the possible permutations that people use - ie. RGB or CMYK; Lineart in a channel or on a layer; same size/resolution as printed file or smaller resolution for working file; Different ways of doing color holds, etc.

Ask any three colorists how they set up their files.... and you'll get FIVE different answers :shock:

It all depends on what you're doing... Coloring Inked lineart; Coloring/Painting pencils, or even completely painting *over* the pencils (i.e. you don't see any pencils in the final art - just the paints/colors)

Anyhoo, I hope to have the tutorial done and online before SDCC - in the meantime I hope this answers your questions.
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Postby Cantina-Dan » Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:03 pm

OK, so color hold goes on top to knock out black linework/trapping layers underneath.

All makes perfect sense,
Thanks, Sweeney!
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Postby Jason Embury » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:58 am

Hey everyone, first post here, been lurking for a while and absorbing the great karma around here :) I do have to say that I look forward to a tut on trapping colors that have been laid down directly on pencils (as that's what I'm working on right now) I THINK that I've got it figured out, but I could be totally off base :P Essentially I've just selected my white areas on my adjusted pencil line art with contiguous on, and then inverted the selection and putting it on it's own layer set to normal layer mode. So I'll be very interested to see if I've done this totally wrong, or if I'm at least close. Thanks in advance for that tutorial Sweeney!
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Postby Sweeney » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:45 am

Trapping Pencils is a whole different ball-game. A similar question was asked in the Pro Lounge.

Adding an undercolor trapping to pencils can cause problems, and in fact, cause the pencils to lighten in areas, something you don't want.

To load grayscale lineart into a layer(Pencils, washes, etc), do not use the wand, especially if copying from a channel.

Channels only contain one piece of information per pixel - how light or dark each pixel is.

Layers have two piece of information per pixel - the color, and transparency of the pixel (i.e. how much layers underneath will show through).

Copy Lineart from a Channel, and you have no transparency information - everything becomes 100% opaque.

Load the lineart as a selection, into your lineart layer and fill with Black - now grey areas will be semi transparent, letting color underneath show through.

So, the easiest way to make a lineart layer from a lineart channel (or greyscale file) is:

Create a new Layer, set the Layer Mode to either Darken, or Multiply.

Command Click the lineart channel (CTRL-Click on PC).

This turns your lineart into a selection. Make sure your Lineart Layer is active, and fill the selection with 0C 0M 0Y 100K.

Here's some pics that illustrate the problems:

Image

In the 3rd pic, the lineart doesn't show up very well at all, and in areas where it sits on top of orange/yellow (like the jaw line), the lineart looks green, instead of blackish grey, and looks awful.

On a side note, I can see I have to fix Urik's eyes.

Trapping pencils is complicated, and can go very wrong. Many colorists don't trap pencils at all. I'd love to hear from those who do trap pencils about how they do it.

Hope that helps explain a few things.
Last edited by Sweeney on Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jason Embury » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:02 am

Thanks, Sweeney. Yeah it does help. I just heard from someone else via email who doesn't bother trapping when coloring from pencils. So I guess it's a toss up. I think I might trap the pages anyways, simply because I want to try whatever I can to avoid any problems. I really appreciate the visuals too, that helps to understand the difference layer modes can have on that type of thing. It really ISN'T an honest to goodness trap when you're dealing with pencils, which I why I think it was giving me so much trouble :) It's more of a "this is what you need to do in Photoshop to simulate what you want" type of thing. thanks again, it was very helpful!!! :D
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Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:05 pm

Hey sweeney, i recommend setting to multiply instead of darken.
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Postby Sweeney » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Zombie Dave McCaig wrote:Hey sweeney, i recommend setting to multiply instead of darken.


Hey Dave, can you tell me why Multiply works better?

I tried pencil lineart with both Darken, and Multply, and I can't see any difference. Then again, maybe I'm just blind.
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Postby dib » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:49 pm

Darken modifies the existing lightness values toward the value of whichever color you have selected. Multiply adds the color over whatever you're painting, and can go as dark as you want it. There's a huge difference. Neither is better, it depends upon what you're trying to accomplish.
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Postby splicer » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:20 am

I completely forgot about trapping. I remember doing it when I printed out my shirts. Glad I found this thread.
Image
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Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:10 pm

dib wrote:Darken modifies the existing lightness values toward the value of whichever color you have selected. Multiply adds the color over whatever you're painting, and can go as dark as you want it. There's a huge difference. Neither is better, it depends upon what you're trying to accomplish.



Darken will only darken values that are lighter in value than the overlaying color. So if you have a k tone that is lighter than the color below it, it will not show up. Multiply will add the value to whatever already exists.

Basically, if you're using a layer for the pencils with only k tones in a CMYK image, ONLY use multiply, never darken, or you'll run the risk of clipping all your light grey pencil info. If you want to adjust the greys, it's better to do that in levels or curves.
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Postby Tibbittz » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:10 am

Zombie Dave McCaig wrote:Here's how I set up pages in CMYK...


feel free to ask questions.

Image
So you use Layers instead of Channels to divide your coloring? Hmmm, that's different than what the DC Guide to Coloring told me to do...

I'm new to Photoshop, so I'm not certain how I'd go about setting up this layer system -- would I duplicate the original layer, and then alter them for each purpose? Or do I make blank layers, and somehow copy and paste the linework into them, and then adjust things?
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Postby marcel_g » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:16 am

This might be a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway: if the publisher is asking for CMYK tif files, do you work with this layer format until the image is finished, and then create a flattened version so you can convert it to a tif with just the CMYK channels?

TIA,
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Postby Justin3000 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:03 pm

marcel_g wrote:This might be a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway: if the publisher is asking for CMYK tif files, do you work with this layer format until the image is finished, and then create a flattened version so you can convert it to a tif with just the CMYK channels?

TIA,

I think the files get flattened and just saved as a regular CMYK .tif with LZW compression right?
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Postby Andrew Cramer » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:40 am

Ive never coloured a page using channels. I only use layers. Is there a right and wrong way in this regards? Or do channels offer more than colouring via layers?
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Re: Layer setup in CMYK

Postby irbilly » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:55 pm

how do you make a trap of the image .im new so i dont get it.
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