does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

[Eagle]

A "page rate" of %15 of the profits on a twenty-two page book would amount to three and a third times the book's profits.

Am I misunderstanding industry shorthand?

[Nathan]

I usually don't comment here much, but here it goes...

From what I've seen, it's pretty common to be owed money to in this industry, not only from small publishers, but from artists we work for. I guess it comes with the job. And usually complaining publicly doens't do much to it.

I am owed money now from colorists I worked for, some for almost a year, and they just can't seem to find the resources to pay for the flats I did for books that have already been published.

Well, I guess I ended up complaining

Getting stiffed on payment does NOT come with the job. I pay my flatter usually within 1-7 days of receiving his invoices. If you've been waiting around for some deadbeat colorist to pay you for flats for almost a year, out the bum. Name names here on GZ. 2 good things can come of this: 1) you'll be warning any other flatter who reads this that your colorist doesn't pay for the work he commissions, and 2) the public shaming just might get you paid (though I wouldn't count on that).

Anyway, that's what I'd do. I'm not a big fan of taking shit from anyone, though.

[Nathan]

A "page rate" of %15 of the profits on a twenty-two page book would amount to three and a third times the book's profits.

Am I misunderstanding industry shorthand?

Obviously not. It's just a half-assed work-for-hire agreement that Davis probably typed up himself. "Compensation" would clearly be a more appropriate term than "page rate".

[Zombie Dave McCaig]

Name names here on GZ.

I wouldn't. IMO, It's poor a business practice to air laundry in a public forum. It's a very different thing to privately warn other flatters though, which I definitely think you should do.

If I were you, for now I'd just email the colorist and tell them that word will get around to other flatters if you are not paid, and ask for a clear payment schedule.

Things like this Bluewater situation are very different from what you are likely experiencing. Unless you find from talking to other flatters that this colorist stiffs people all the time, I'd probably keep it on the QT and just find other people to flat for.

[Nathan]

Yeah, maybe listen to McCaig. I don't really see how publicly stating that a colorist is a year delinquent in paying his invoices can reflect poorly on the flatter. I sure wouldn't think less of you for doing so. But that's probably just me, I guess.

[Eagle]

A year's a pretty long time for what little flatters get paid.

[Zombie Dave McCaig]

Yeah, no argument there.

[Sweeney]

I'm still waiting to get paid for work I finished over six months ago from one colorist who keeps telling me "IDW hasn't paid them".

[Zombie Dave McCaig]

Hey I ain't going to lie, I've taken forever to pay flatters in the past. I'd rather a flatter tell me they need payment privately over getting outed publicly though. (In my defense, that tends to happen when a flatter just invoices me like once per year, or 6 months after the work is done.)

The reverse has been true for me as well, I've had companies take forever to pay me, and I only talk about that publicly if I know they're doing it to other freelancers through closed-door word of mouth.

Shit happens. Making some allowances for that makes the world run smoother.

We've got it pretty easy in comics IMO, I hear all sorts of stories about product manufacturing non-payment to factories as a systematic practice that would make your head spin.

[SNAKEBITE]

yes, shit happens. Being understanding is the best position until they give you no other option. I know I for one had serious financial issues this year. shittiest to date.

[Sweeney]

Hey I ain't going to lie, I've taken forever to pay flatters in the past. I'd rather a flatter tell me they need payment privately over getting outed publicly though. (In my defense, that tends to happen when a flatter just invoices me like once per year, or 6 months after the work is done.)

So what do you do when they just ignore your requests for payment? Ignore 4 out 5 emails you send? Invoice are sent promptly, along with reminders. This particular fuck-up has always had one excuse or another as to why payments are late, no matter who the publisher is.

The reverse has been true for me as well, I've had companies take forever to pay me, and I only talk about that publicly if I know they're doing it to other freelancers through closed-door word of mouth.

I don't know anyone else who works for IDW that's having any trouble getting paid.

Shit happens. Making some allowances for that makes the world run smoother.

I've made allowances, and I know shit happens. But there's 'shit happens', and "Bend over and let ass-fuck you for some more free work I can't be bothered to pay for." I quit working for this dickhead after hearing TOO MANY TIMES "I'm getting paid this week"/"I'll have a paycheck for you next week", and 6-8 weeks later, every time, I'm still fucking waiting, with no word whatsoever.

We've got it pretty easy in comics IMO, I hear all sorts of stories about product manufacturing non-payment to factories as a systematic practice that would make your head spin.

This is a colorist who works for good companies - Marvel, DC, IDW, Image... not some fuckwit with some dipshit indie company no one ever heard of. It's inexcusable and completely unprofessional.

[Zombie Dave McCaig]

Well... I dunno. I guess you could just get incredibly really angry and publicly out everyone. I'm just saying that's not my style, and doesn't fit into my business view.

If YOU want to handle it that way, why not? There are cantankerous complainers that are successful. Harlon Ellison comes to mind. And... um... Hm, not many others.

I'm not saying that outing these people is MORALLY WRONG because it's not, and a lot of these guys deserve outing. I'm just saying that it might cause *the outer* more harm than it causes the person outed. People tend to avoid working with people that complain. Who knows what they might complain about next time?

That said, you're a great flatter, and I'm sure you'll never hurt for work. I dunno... I guess I'm just a sleeping dogs lie kind of guy. In business anyway.

[MarciaPatricio]

Thanks for those advices

Well, I am quite understanding in these situations. I won't tell their names publicly, or at least not right away, because I tend to believe they are still going to pay me, since they already have in the past

It's not a lot of money (under $200), because it was some sporadic work, but I don't think it's fair that they have been payed for the work they did over my flats for books from Marvel and DC and that they can't find ways to pay me.

I won't email other flatters, because, both colorists have stopped getting work in comics then...

[Val]

From my understanding, I still owe one flatter for flats from a long time ago.
But it's because they still haven't sent me a voucher, and they are aware of that.

Yet Darren's been doing this non-payment thing since I can remember. Heck, back in his Tidalwave days of 2000 even. I was lucky, I was only unpaid for one cover. But I know other guys from back then who are owed a lot of money.
If it wasn't for uninformed new pros, they wouldn't keep finding people to take advantage of for new projects.

It's my opinion that if you're a publisher in debt, you work out a plan to pay it off.
No empty promises, but regular updates with actual concepts and ideas on how to progress with repayment.
But these problem publishers just ignore previous debt, and move on to new projects and new debt.
Most don't have contracts. And for those who do, the legal costs in trying to get your money outweigh the effort. These problem publishers know that.

Anything new that I plan to produce, I'm upfront about the risk and what's realistic to expect money wise.
It's hard out there to turn a dollar on an indy project.
Lofty goals with lots of cloud soaring always lead to one hell of a plummet.
So honestly is the best policy if you're going to involve other people.

[mudcat]

It's my opinion that if you're a publisher in debt, you work out a plan to pay it off.
No empty promises, but regular updates with actual concepts and ideas on how to progress with repayment.
But these problem publishers just ignore previous debt, and move on to new projects and new debt.

This is pretty much the exact same thing myself and a few other artists have been saying to each in regards to a certain publisher since January. It just blows my mind that something so mind-numbingly simple is so hard to grasp for guys trying to run a business.