does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

shoot the breeze. Movies, comics, potatoes. Whatever.

Moderators: Zombie Dave McCaig, Reber, Laura, Dean Welsh, Scott Johnson

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Andrew Cramer » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:32 am

I got paid for some of the covers I coloured.
I have not seen anything for the sequential work I coloured but I was assured that when the TPB comes out next year I will see something...
So I am waiting to see what happens next year.
But I have asked numerous times to at least get some comps of the stuff I did, I got 4 copies of one issue so far....
User avatar
Andrew Cramer
oICEMANo
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 4:01 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby MBirkhofer » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:48 am

I responded to a looking for colorist at digital webbing for Bluewater.
I did a "test page", which turned out to be a cover, which may or may not have been used. which is fairly silly in its own right. A pinup cover with art by a differant artist is no way to judge what the colorist will do with the sequential art of the book. I saw it for what it was and did it anyway.
In regards to the book, I asked many questions. Having to ask a number of them repeatedly. Thing like, what if I do 2 issues, and while I'm working on issue 3, the book is canceled? Or if I do the work and the book is never published. I looked at the diamond sales figures of the title in questions previous sales, to get an expected sales number. Questioned the kind of figures were expected, etc. Asked if a minimum value could be guaranteed.
Many of my questions were never answered satisfactory. Amusingly enough, I was asked/offered as second book as well, which I turned down due to horrible artwork. And never heard back about the first either. At which point, I had little faith, so moved on.

Back end deals are no way to conduct business. If they can't afford to promise even a nominal $40, then they can't afford to operate a business.
User avatar
MBirkhofer
Überzombie
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:52 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:05 pm

The indie market will be going away soon because the bar for sales is 1,500 and Diamond is raising it. So unless you are in a financial position to do so, this is not the deal for you.


He's talking about color comics, which at under 10,000 units are almost always a money loser, never mind 1,000 units.

That is, he means the money losing print version, not the free online version that would likely net you more than 1,500 viewers. did I mention free? It's free to publish online. More people see it. And it's free. It won't lose you money. And more people see it.

I wonder if I said that enough.

HEY INDIE GUYS (who want their stuff in color), PUBLISH ONLINE. MORE PEOPLE SEE IT. IT'S FREE. SELL T-SHIRTS AT CONS.

Black and white guys, keep on xeroxing on.
Prepare the mental-bleach solution of two parts whiskey to two parts whisky.
User avatar
Zombie Dave McCaig
Clownshoes
Clownshoes
 
Posts: 12060
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:29 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Eagle » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:20 pm

And you avoid the hassle of shitty printing from China!
User avatar
Eagle
Überzombie
 
Posts: 6009
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: French-Québecois

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Magpie » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:04 pm

Zombie Dave McCaig wrote:
The indie market will be going away soon because the bar for sales is 1,500 and Diamond is raising it. So unless you are in a financial position to do so, this is not the deal for you.


He's talking about color comics, which at under 10,000 units are almost always a money loser, never mind 1,000 units.

That is, he means the money losing print version, not the free online version that would likely net you more than 1,500 viewers. did I mention free? It's free to publish online. More people see it. And it's free. It won't lose you money. And more people see it.

I wonder if I said that enough.

HEY INDIE GUYS (who want their stuff in color), PUBLISH ONLINE. MORE PEOPLE SEE IT. IT'S FREE. SELL T-SHIRTS AT CONS.

Black and white guys, keep on xeroxing on.


Or do a Black and white monthly, and do the TPB in COLOR...at the same time you're doing your online saga.

The only people I will do(print)work for are DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Sony, or myself. By now I think it should be obvious that if you do work for any other small press outfits/publishers, and you wait eons for a check, or don't get paid at all, it is not surprising in the least.

I love these threads btw. I love when publishers drop by to give the freelancers some lessons in how to conduct one's self in the face of being powerless in your pursuit of compensation...or hell, even clarity. Lol.

-JR
"No one gets everything they want in life, and that is beautiful."
User avatar
Magpie
Giant Milk Dud Head
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Marc Lewis » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:38 am

Magpie wrote:I love these threads btw. I love when publishers drop by to give the freelancers some lessons in how to conduct one's self in the face of being powerless in your pursuit of compensation...or hell, even clarity. Lol.

-JR


Speaking of clarity - was this sarcasm? I've read it a couple of times and I'm not sure.
Colors by MAL
web
deviant
The Conjurer Comic

"Obsession has to have action. Pride turns on the drive."
User avatar
Marc Lewis
Überzombie
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Milton, WV

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Magpie » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:23 pm

Marc Lewis wrote:
Magpie wrote:I love these threads btw. I love when publishers drop by to give the freelancers some lessons in how to conduct one's self in the face of being powerless in your pursuit of compensation...or hell, even clarity. Lol.

-JR


Speaking of clarity - was this sarcasm? I've read it a couple of times and I'm not sure.



I read it again and I'm not sure...

-JR
"No one gets everything they want in life, and that is beautiful."
User avatar
Magpie
Giant Milk Dud Head
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Mecha » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:47 pm

I wasn't going to comment again, because I know everything he said in his response on here was utter bullshit, but someone just pointed out to me that he's started a blog on his "company" website where he admits he will use it to slam other people in the industry -- ironically where they can't respond to his intimidations and threats. Like he did to Sean Murphy, and has done to other artists who didn't heed his email threats.

Just to clear up part of what he said about me in his bullshit post: I run an NPO. A non profit organization. I help creators self publish their own books and network, and use my professional connections to get their books into the hands of editors. All of the books are creator owned and operated, and I know for a fact that 99% of our creators are either drawing the books themselves, or paying artists a page rate. I even publish short stories for free, and give all of the profits to the creative teams. I do not get paid for my work there, and never have. I also don't condone artists working for free or the general abuse of artists and their skills, and have even written news articles on the subject. The only thing free work is good for is charity. That's the only reason I as an artist will ever work for free, or ask another artist to contribute their time and effort.

What he did, was try to defraud my studio when he participated in one of our charity books. Our first major Diamond-solicited effort to benefit the hurricane relief programs of the Red Cross in New Orleans. Creators banded together to create an anthology graphic novel, and because we are a non profit we needed to raise funds to print the book -- so all of the creators pitched in an amount of $15 per page to help pay for the printing. That raised about $1500 for us, and it's all public knowledge. I took care of the other $3000 we needed to print 1000 copies of the book. He sent in his story, but never paid. It took a couple of months and several people before he would send in the funds owed for his story. Later on, he demanded not one, but several copies for free. Not to me though. He would post about how I "owed" him these books, and how I was no better than he. Bullshit. Each contributor got one comp copy, and almost all of the contributors paid the base cost for me to mail their copies to them. Other creators actually met up with me to pick up their copies, and I hand delivered almost a dozen copies to letterers and artists. I also shipped some around the world out of my own pocket.

If he wants his single comp copy, he can come get it. He knows where I live, and I'm not paying another dime for him so he can forget about me mailing it. Until then, he has nothing he can say against my studio. Pretty nasty of him to try anyways.

On the personal note, a little more detail. I worked a 45 hour a week night shift job while he tried to force me and other creative teams to do books in 30 days. An artist working for free cannot do that. They have families to feed, bills to pay. We would get condescending emails demanding pages if we didn't stay on his schedule. I'm aware of other people being on the receiving end of threatening phone calls as well. If he expects monthly books, he needs to pay his artists a page rate. He can't treat it like a job when he's not paying for the work.
Mecha
Fresh Meat
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Canada

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Magpie » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:35 pm

Marc: Yes, it was sarcasm. I pretty much have zero respect for most of the small press people who jump in here to defend themselves for not paying people for one reason or another. No other businesses I know of would operate in the ways we see those clowns do.(well, maybe investment banks) :ha:

The worst part is, much like my former employer Crossgen, they always purport to love the hell out of the industry and it's creative talent, but always seem to evaporate after owing those creators tens(if not hundreds)of thousands of dollars.

Meh. I suppose eventually it will all come out in the wash.

-JR
"No one gets everything they want in life, and that is beautiful."
User avatar
Magpie
Giant Milk Dud Head
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:19 pm

I dunno, JR,

Maybe the small press guys with no hope to make a profit just love the industry so much that they just want to fuck everyone in it. :<3: :<3:
Prepare the mental-bleach solution of two parts whiskey to two parts whisky.
User avatar
Zombie Dave McCaig
Clownshoes
Clownshoes
 
Posts: 12060
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:29 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby PoisonElf » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:48 pm

I'm not sure what the big thing is about us "hiding behind" screen names and avatars.
Not that hard to click a link.
I'm certainly not trying to hide who to make the check out to.
PoisonElf
Zombie
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:44 am

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Mecha » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:21 pm

It's just an attempt to distract I think. Make you think about other things.
Mecha
Fresh Meat
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Canada

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Magpie » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:37 pm

Lol. Yeah, I come here to cause trouble and hide behind my avatar. :ha:


Magpie just sounds cooler than James Rochelle. People may think I'm some cool underground artist, maybe even foreign! Maybe I look like a dreamy "Twilight" actor, and I brood a lot in a sexy way. I do own at least one leather jacket.

Honestly I think that artists should just stop supporting these small press guys period(if you ever hear about payment issues and the like). There are so many other outlets to display your work, and if you're not getting paid anyway and/or dealing with deadlines and ass-hats like Bluewater or whatever/whoever, just post your work here or on DA, or a million other sites. Hell, more people who matter will probably see your work on this or DA than they would on some pamphlet that sells 1,000 copies.(If it's good anyways) And you don't wake up the next day with your colon all stretched out....

-JR
"No one gets everything they want in life, and that is beautiful."
User avatar
Magpie
Giant Milk Dud Head
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Mecha » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:57 pm

Haha...

Yeah same here. That and I've been using my nick for almost a decade.

Good post :) Gah... I actually thought you Magpye from DA for a minute. He's a colourist too... who knows, he probably comes here.
Last edited by Mecha on Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mecha
Fresh Meat
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Canada

Re: does someone ever worked for bluewater and get paid?

Postby Magpie » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:35 pm

Mecha wrote:Haha...

Yeah same here. That and I've been using my nick for almost a decade.

Good post :) Gah... I actually thought you Magpye from DA for a minute. He's a colourist too... who knows, he probably comes here.


Actually back in 1998 or 1999 on the old Sijun forums is where I started using Magpie. Wow, I'm friggin old...

-JR
"No one gets everything they want in life, and that is beautiful."
User avatar
Magpie
Giant Milk Dud Head
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

PreviousNext

Return to Sunshine and Rainbows

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest