Credit for Flatters

[Soonergriff]

Not sure if anyone has broached this subject, but given the necessity (and ofttimes complexity of work) of flats and flatters, shouldn't they receive credit on the title page? I remember before the age of computer coloring that most publishers credited the color separations along with the colors. While not strictly the same thing, they're in the same neighborhood. How do colorists feel about this? I would think if you had a regular guy/girl you'd want to give them a shoutout.

Just to be clear, I'm not a flatter, but i can definitely appreciate the work that they do.

[John Rauch]

Not sure if anyone has broached this subject, but given the necessity (and ofttimes complexity of work) of flats and flatters, shouldn't they receive credit on the title page? I remember before the age of computer coloring that most publishers credited the color separations along with the colors. While not strictly the same thing, they're in the same neighborhood. How do colorists feel about this? I would think if you had a regular guy/girl you'd want to give them a shoutout.

Just to be clear, I'm not a flatter, but i can definitely appreciate the work that they do.

I appreciate the work my flatters do, but I think the credits page should be reserved to the creative team. If a person's work didn't influence the final product, I'd say it doesn't belong.

[MarciaPatricio]

But don't you think the flatter has influence on the final product? How is that if he worked on the page?

I am a flatter, but I don't really care if my name is mentionned anymore, but it is questionable.

[Eagle]

Ours is a technical position. We may as well credit the guy who sets up the printing plates.

[Hollingsworth]

I remember before the age of computer coloring that most publishers credited the color separations along with the colors. While not strictly the same thing, they're in the same neighborhood.

This is TOTALLY inaccurate.

In the days of color guides and seps, the separator's work is what everyone saw. Nobody saw the color guides. The color guide was something the separator looked at when they were doing the actual digital painting. A flatter lays in flat colors. And at least with my flatter NONE of their color choices remain in the final book. They don't do ANY of the rendering. They don't choose any of the colors. The only thing that you can see of their work is if they stay in the lines or not.

I love my flatter. But no, I don't think they should get credit. The creative team on a book often uses what could be deemed as apprentices. And it's been that way for ages. Inkers have people help with backgrounds a lot of times, for instance. And the penciler might also do this. And the penciler might also use models for photo ref. And Google Sketchup for backgrounds. So, what, should we credit everyone that had any hand touch the book? Anything that was used in the production of the book?

A flatter helps a colorist immensely. But no, they don't really have much influence on the end product's look. You could not distinguish between a page that I flatted or that my flatter flatted, for instance. But if you had someone else actually color the page, you'd be able to tell us apart.

[SeanE]

yah... otherwise it'll be like the movies where the credits seem longer than the film itself.

it'd be a 22 page comic book and another 30 pages worth of 'credits' !!!!

[boysoltero]

I LOVE my flatters!

Here's a shoutout to Jethro Razo, Jason Dana Ramos, Katrina Hao and her Team Katha! Great job you guys!:D

[Rayall]

But don't you think the flatter has influence on the final product? How is that if he worked on the page?

I am a flatter, but I don't really care if my name is mentionned anymore, but it is questionable.

I don't agree. Colorists don't always have to be good to be flatters, they just have to know how to draw with a tablet (and learn to be very fast). But when they have to color a page, it takes much more skill. I have said before I haven't applied to companies like Marvel or DC because I know I'm not as good as John or Laura, so I take other jobs or I flat pages for extra money.

[Soonergriff]

I appreciate the work my flatters do, but I think the credits page should be reserved to the creative team. If a person's work didn't influence the final product, I'd say it doesn't belong.

I think that this is a fair statement.

On that note, do you prefer to have the colors flatted with local color, or do you just convert them into a gray channel or layer?

[MarciaPatricio]

But don't you think the flatter has influence on the final product? How is that if he worked on the page?

I am a flatter, but I don't really care if my name is mentionned anymore, but it is questionable.

I don't agree. Colorists don't always have to be good to be flatters, they just have to know how to draw with a tablet (and learn to be very fast). But when they have to color a page, it takes much more skill. I have said before I haven't applied to companies like Marvel or DC because I know I'm not as good as John or Laura, so I take other jobs or I flat pages for extra money.

Maybe I didn't explained correctly, since my english isn't very good. I was just questioning. I completely agree with the general opinion: Flattening requires no artistic skill, I know that because I have none, everybody can be a flatter if they really want to.

[Bill Farmer]

I bought a book at this years comic con just because the dude credited his flatter.

[Val]

When I published, I always credited flatters.
and when my Image titles come out,I'll credit the flatters there as well.

It's hard work, and I feel it deserves some credit.

Colorists have had to fight for recognition for years for everything we bring to a title.
Hell, we're still fighting.

I think it's only fair a flatter gets credit, in some capacity, for all their hard work that helps make my job easier.

[ColorNaif]

Full disclosure: I don't use a flatter, and I don't have any strictly monthly gigs, although it seems I'm always juggling between two and five projects in addition to my day job (yeah, I know, I'm an idiot). But it's fun, it's rewarding, and it's more money in the bank than I'd have if I spent my personal time watching DVDs or playing video games. It's true that I could probably justify throwing a few peanuts at a flatter at this point, but I choose not to. If I one day find myself drowning in deadlines or doing something for Marvel or DC, I may opt for the services of a flatter, but until then I'll continue to regard the position as subservient and unnecessary.

If a flatter ever becomes necessary for me to do my job, he's either getting a credit, or I walk away from the project. It's that simple in my eyes. There's an appreciable difference between a human flatter and a multifill plugin or something along those lines. It's not a terrifically challenging job, admittedly, but it does require at least a modicum of creativity and actual judgment, and I strongly suspect that nobody who isn't interested in making the jump to fully fledged colorist would ever approach it as a hobby, let alone a job. Because come on. Let's be real, guys.

Anyway. My two cents. I noticed last week that Erik Larsen has started crediting both a flatter and a colorist in Savage Dragon. It made me happy, and I hope he keeps it up.

[Stephanie]

My preference is that flatters get credit. As well as ghost colourists, inker assistants, and background artists, even if it is on the last page in fine print.

[John Rauch]

I'm all for fairness. If we're crediting everyone in the process, then sure, include flatters. But that's not the case, so I feel like limiting it to the creative positions is a good place to draw the line. There are many other comparable contributions that go uncredited as well. Also, flatters don't work for the publishers, they work for the colorists, as with any assistant like position. I understand that most flatters are working their way up to coloring and I appreciate that fact (the ones that are usually make the best flatters), but that does not mean they were involved in the creative portion of the job. They may have been working with the same tools on the same page, but the creative decisions are all left up to the colorist. Flatting is very tedious work. Hell, there's a reason most colorists don't want to do it and I'm not trying to take away anything from the work that flatters do. I've had (and still do) a few very good ones, but the best flatter in the world's contribution is in how much time they save me personally, not how much they affect the final page, because the final page will look the same regardless of who flats it. Anyway, back to what I said at first, if we're going to start crediting everyone involved, then absolutely throw the flatters in. If not, I'm personally not going to push for it unless a publisher just *wants* to credit them and asks me who I use.