Bigotry in Comics

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Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:01 am

This is getting on my nerves.

First [I mean, as far as I'm going to discuss today], you've got this bullshit at SDCC:

http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... cinterview

http://io9.com/5826557/how-batgirl-took ... -pr-crisis

The room remained mostly male by a large majority. I watched the presentation, first of the Justice League comic, then as solo cover after solo cover was put up on the big screen. And it started to feel almost surreal, because every single one of the covers had a man on it. The only woman I saw was Wonder Woman, on the far side of the Justice League cover - I have no idea why she was left out of the solo-title line-up - but every one of the solo titles they showed had a man on it. I already knew that DC wasn’t exactly female-friendly. But somehow, seeing it like that was really startling. When I got up to ask the question, I was feeling almost *bewildered*, which is why it came out as, “Where are the women?” This line got cheered. Johns responded that DC had more iconic female characters than anyone else, and also said that he loved Mera, who was a great character and ‘right there next to Aquaman’. The first woman Johns mentioned in response to my question wasn’t Wonder Woman, it was a character defined by her relationship to one of the male superheroes.

I responded to that, thinking out loud and noting that a lot of their female heroes are associated with another hero. For example, BatGIRL/Batman, SuperGIRL/Superman, Wonder GIRL…Wonder WOMAN, who I said was the only REALLY iconic DC female hero I could think of off the top of my head.

The audience didn’t like that. They immediately began yelling at me, shouting out their favorite female heroes, Huntress, Starfire, etc. In terms of iconic status, are Huntress and Starfire on the same level as Wonder Woman? I certainly hadn’t heard of them before I got into comics.

The room became extraordinarily hostile to me very, very quickly. People started booing and yelling at me to sit down. I shrugged and said, “Well, now I’m going to get yelled at.” I wasn’t upset so much as I was *confused*. Didn’t these people want to see more kick-ass women? If they loved these characters so much, why were they getting angry at me for asking DC why there weren’t more of them?


Seriously?

Then this:

http://graphicpolicy.com/2011/08/01/the ... t-problem/

Yesterday, things came to a head on the #comicmarket discussion on Twitter. #comicmarket was started by Larry’s Comics and a few others to foster discussion among retailers, fans, publishers, artists and writers in how to improve the comic book industry. In doing so, it has become a public resource, growing each week. It has become a public relations tool, showing off what the comic book industry has to offer. Unfortunately, that came to a screeching halt, as the same Larry’s Comics who helped start the forum for discussion also belittled it and those who participate by posting what can only be described as racist comments.

The discussion began over the rumor of the next “ultimate” Spider-Man being black. Larry thought it was a publicity attempt and then proceeded to post the following:

Image

Image

There’s no excuse for those comments. They are unwelcoming to new participants, combative and racist. Unfortunately the comments didn’t end there. Some other “open minded” individuals piped in when a few of us called out the comments.

Image

Just like race jokes, comments about AIDS also crosses a line.

There’s so many issues with this incident. The first is the clear tone deaf reaction by Larry’s Comics. He deleted the offending tweets not because they were wrong, but because he didn’t want to deal with responding to them. But, that’s what he’s been doing all day today.


Et cetera, et cetera.

:o

I laughed at Frank Cho's remarks on that panel, but is he actually like that for real, or was he putting on a show?
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Laura » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:21 am

I've been following that story about the woman dressed as Batgirl showing up to DC panels. I hope DiDio, et al. were embarrassed about not having a decent response for her and for joking and brushing her off. Several of the panelists spoke to the woman later on that day or the next day, which was good, but this scenario was definitely embarrassing.

I suspect that DiDio/Lee were blindsided by the criticism about the lack of female characters and creators. That's no excuse; this discussion has been at a slow boil since the announcement of the relaunch. At least one major comics news outlet has posted in-depth analyses of the ratio of women to men in both the creative teams and the character teams. (Can't find the link now. I really should learn to bookmark stuff.) Nevertheless, the powers that be were caught unaware, and had nothing prepared to deal with it, expecting instead to be attacked for other reasons relating to the relaunch.

So, they posted a response on the DCU Blog.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2011/07/29/we-hear-you/

Whether they chose to get out in front of this now, or whether their Warner Bros. liaison, who is a woman (and whose name escapes me...Elaine?), told them to get out in front of it, I don't know.

Another layer to this is that Batgirl (and other continuing coverage) failed to count female COLORISTS. Once again, we are not considered part of the creative team. I would publish a screed about that, but I don't have the time to do the research and find out who's coloring what.

As for black Spider-Man...in this day and age, in this online environment where people turn off the self-censorship button and post every stupid inane thing that flits past their frontal lobes, are you really that surprised by the response? It's racist bullshit, of course, and I hope that guy gets trolled to high heaven for posting racist comments, but I'm not surprised. Apparently racism in person is still taboo, but racism on the intertubes is a-okay.

P.S. Frank Cho is one of those guys who has no self-censorship button and he's a celebrated sexist. By that I mean that everyone knows he's a sexist and it's kind of cute (up to a point) because he's harmless. He knows it, the comics community knows it.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:29 am

It seems like the self-censorship-in-person wasn't really showing very strongly at SDCC either. Though I suppose that was a vocal minority making everyone look like asses.

I'm not so much surprised by the shop owner's comments. It's more of a, "Well, duh... And you wonder why comics don't sell or women run screaming from your shop?" sort of thing.

Here's an idea for a cosplay: Batgirlboy. Or Supergirlboy. Or Powerboy. Or Wonderboy. See how well that goes over. Not at all mature, I know.

The ongoing degradation of colourists is... Another thing that makes no sense.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby coreyh2 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:10 pm

AAA Video games have a similar problem. There has been discussion about how female main characters games sell worse then males. There also aren't as many women in the industry making the games. Same things with other races being main characters.

People can get pretty creepy when they feel like they are being attacked. I understand that myself. I suppose the nice thing about the internet is that it spreads it around so it gets discussed.

What did Frank Cho say?
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:35 pm

coreyh2 wrote:AAA Video games have a similar problem. There has been discussion about how female main characters games sell worse then males. There also aren't as many women in the industry making the games. Same things with other races being main characters.

People can get pretty creepy when they feel like they are being attacked. I understand that myself. I suppose the nice thing about the internet is that it spreads it around so it gets discussed.

What did Frank Cho say?

http://www.thedollarbin.net/shows/heroe ... ssion.html
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Thor Badendyck » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:31 am

I suppose this should go here. (And speaking of Batgirl...)

Deconstructing DC's decision to regress Barbra Gordon from Oracle back to Batgirl.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/17/give-batgirl-the-chair-by-eric-glover/
He says most of what I might say, only maybe more diplomatically. So I'm glad he has a column at bleedingcool, and more time to type than I do.

Didio's response to the issue: (video below)
We try to make our characters as widely accessible as possible....

funny, the word "accessible" used in relation to people in wheelchairs usually means more visibility for us, not less.

...Barbara Gorden is the most recognizible Batgirl.

Towards the end someone asks, "Then why is Damian Robin? He's not the most recognizable one."

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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:39 pm

DC made so many mistakes with this relaunch.

I wish someone from WB would have stepped in and done it instead. They should have handed Bruce Timm, Glen Murakami, and Paul Dini a million bucks and done it right.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:41 pm

And Tim Gunn. :<3:
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:44 pm

I think you mean Jean Paul Gaultier.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:46 pm

Sure.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:20 pm

Ok, I'm saying Jean Paul Gaultier. :)

Tim Gunn is a great personality, and has good taste, but I'm not convinced that his Liz Claiborne work would really lend to good superhero costume design.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:40 pm

I was mostly joking because you'd mentioned Bruce Timm, which made me think of Tim Gunn.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Laura » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:45 pm

Now I want a portrait of Tim Gunn done by Bruce Timm.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Eagle » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:54 pm

Hahahahaha.
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Re: Bigotry in Comics

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:57 pm

:P

Sorry, my fashion nerd was showing.
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