pro-life, pro-choice, let's all kill each other! Was: argh

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Re: argh

Postby monkeybutter » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:23 pm

Soonergriff wrote:It doesn't work very well, and has many flaws, but the alternative is a recipe for an Oligarchy.


I'm surprised and disappointed you didn't recognize the Simpsons quote :-(
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Re: argh

Postby Soonergriff » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:26 pm

Annoyed Grunt.

In other words . . . D'OH!
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Re: argh

Postby monkeybutter » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:29 pm

Soonergriff wrote:I'm equally troubled by the shooting in Oklahoma City: http://krmg.com/blogs/the_krmg_morning_news_blog/2009/05/video-okc-pharmacist-shoots-ki.html
He was well within his rights until he pulled out the second handgun.


well, to be persnickety, he was well within his rights to pull out the second handgun, what sort of put it over the edge was shooting an unconscious guy 5 times.
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Re: argh

Postby monkeybutter » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:30 pm

Soonergriff wrote:Annoyed Grunt.

In other words . . . D'OH!


In your defense, it was pretty obscure and I probably wouldn't remember it either if it hadn't been on tv last week.
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Re: argh

Postby Brian Frey ~ halfmoth » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:56 pm

"Pop quiz, Pro-Life hotshot: The unwanted pregnancy you 'saved' 30 years ago has grown up to become an abortion doctor. What do you do? What do you do?!"
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Re: argh

Postby Sweeney » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:00 pm

Soonergriff wrote:well, to be persnickety, he was well within his rights to pull out the second handgun, what sort of put it over the edge was shooting an unconscious guy 5 times.

The pharmacist probably believes that overkill would have been reloading and shooting some more. Here in Canada he could be charged with attempted murder just for the first shot. Self defense requires "Reasonable Force", "reasonable belief you are in danger" and there's no evidence that the perps even had a gun, much less fired a shot.
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Re: argh

Postby robbdaman » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:26 pm

monkeybutter wrote:
Soonergriff wrote:Well, to be persnickety, he was well within his rights to pull out the second handgun, what sort of put it over the edge was shooting an unconscious guy 5 times.


He flinched and lunged! ;)
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Re: argh

Postby monkeybutter » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:48 pm

Sweeney wrote:there's no evidence that the perps even had a gun, much less fired a shot.


you can see the gun clearly in the video. I mean, maybe it's a toy gun or whatever, but meh.
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Re: argh

Postby Soonergriff » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:02 pm

Plus, it's a pharmacy, so at that point he has no idea what to expect from the robbers.
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Re: argh

Postby Iron Odin » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:22 pm

Sweeney wrote:...or a defense against murder charges for killing your girlfriend and her lover "I'm Italian, very passionate people, we excuse this sort of thing" (Paraphrased)--- an actual defense, and the motherfucker got the charges dropped down to INVOLUNTARY manslaughter, and something like 6 yrs!


Well, unfortunately, something like that can be considered a "crime of passion". You can plead the same thing if you caught your wife cheating on you and you killed either one of them. By using that defense you're pretty much stating that you were in such a rage that you weren't in complete control of your actions, and temporarily insane.

It sucks, but in some cases it works, at least enough to lessen the charges. The problem with a jury is, that you only need to get one person to empathize with you for killing your significant other.

The Law is fun, isn't it?

That whole story about the Doctor sucks too.
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Re: argh

Postby Soonergriff » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:38 pm

It also works the other way around. The State considers what you were thinking when you commit a hate crime, and judges you accordingly.
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Re: argh

Postby Jason Robinson » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:55 pm

Sweeney wrote:
Soonergriff wrote:well, to be persnickety, he was well within his rights to pull out the second handgun, what sort of put it over the edge was shooting an unconscious guy 5 times.

The pharmacist probably believes that overkill would have been reloading and shooting some more. Here in Canada he could be charged with attempted murder just for the first shot. Self defense requires "Reasonable Force", "reasonable belief you are in danger" and there's no evidence that the perps even had a gun, much less fired a shot.

One of the teens DID have a gun. You can see it in the videotape. So, the pharmacist had "reasonable belief" he and his employees were in danger when he shot one of the guys in the head. Actually WAITING for an assailant to fire the gun before acting would just be idiotic. His name's not Neo!

Coming back and shooting him five MORE times while unconscious — after chasing the other robber off — though, was simply murder and unnecessary. He should be convicted for manslaughter. The incident ought to, however, give would-be robbers food for thought. If you're stupid enough to pull a gun on someone, don't cry if you get shot first.
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Re: argh

Postby Eagle » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:09 pm

Jason Robinson wrote:If you're stupid enough to pull a gun on someone, don't cry if you get shot first.

In this country, it's amazing they don't already understand that. Or any country for that matter.

Tho, you've got a gun? Oh, well, gee, you're jutht thuper thpecial now. Nobody elthe could pothibly have one too.
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Re: argh

Postby Nathan » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:17 am

Jason Robinson wrote:One of the teens DID have a gun. You can see it in the videotape. So, the pharmacist had "reasonable belief" he and his employees were in danger when he shot one of the guys in the head. Actually WAITING for an assailant to fire the gun before acting would just be idiotic. His name's not Neo!

Coming back and shooting him five MORE times while unconscious — after chasing the other robber off — though, was simply murder and unnecessary. He should be convicted for manslaughter. The incident ought to, however, give would-be robbers food for thought. If you're stupid enough to pull a gun on someone, don't cry if you get shot first.


Wow! I actually agree with you on this one. :cheers: (Except, it should be at least 2nd degree murder -- I don't think anyone would believe that he didn't mean to kill the kid.) I'm amazed, though, that based on the comments posted on the story, we are in the minority. Most comments seem to think the guy deserves a medal. But maybe the NRA or whatever is linking to that story or something -- that could lead to the skewed responses.
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Re: argh

Postby Zombie Dave McCaig » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:24 am

I agree too. Right to shoot first, wrong to shoot sixth.
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